Talk:Homo superior
Why is Night Thrasher listed as a mutant?--Batman ( Zakkoroen)The Batcave. 02:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC) :Because the current Night Thrasher, Donyell Taylor is a mutant. Though, if it's linking to the Night Thrasher disambig, that should probably be fixed. :--GrnMarvl14 02:25, 29 November 2008 (UTC) Unnamed Mutants The section called "Unnamed Mutants" is out of place in this page. It shows a (roughly drafted) list of depowered mutants, probably depowered mutants, dead mutants and mutants from alternate realities that have never been to Earth-616 (focusing on those whose names aren't known). Since the section above (List of Known Mutants) contains all the mutants currently alive and powered, I see two alternatives: 1) Just remove the "Unnamed Mutants" section; 2) Replace the "Unnamed Mutants" section with the following expanded sections: 2.1) Depowered Mutants; 2.2) "Mutants not confirmed powered neither depowered"; 2.3) Dead Mutants ...without adding a list of mutants from alternate realities. Non Homo Superior Mutants How should mutants given powers not from the x-gene, like spiderman be classified? :Spider-Man is not a mutant. He is a mutated human. And the classification of mutants Alpha through Omega has never been fully endorsed by Marvel. It's something the fans have read in the comics once or twice and run with. :) :— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 05:28, 3 May 2009 (UTC) Classification Does this section have any basis in canon? Any sources or references to back it up? At all? I have never seen Alpha or Beta mutants defined in detail in continuity, and I've never even heard of "Zeta Mutants" or this other stuff (besides Omegas). Didn't this come up over a year ago, and this classification system was traced to some guy's random unsourced webpage? I think this classification system is totally fan-made, spawned by the internet. --Mutant Y 14:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC) :No, this section is not cannon at all. In a handful of Marvel books, they mention 'Omega' mutants, and the rest was made up by fans in the UK. It's been removed and put back several times since fans are so adamant about this being an official ranking system. Marvel has never endorsed the system whatsoever, and has never explained what constitutes an Omega class mutant. :— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 16:12, 22 August 2009 (UTC) ::So, its okay to kill it on site? ;) I've never understood the system at all anyway and no one who makes these kinds of edits has ever made any attempt to explain the system to the rest of us that I'm aware of.--Max 16:16, 22 August 2009 (UTC) Caterory First, we should categorize mutants by their ow realities e.g. Category:Mutant (Earth-xxx), is it a good idea? :If so I'll start doing this, if not I'll start too. Second, there are some characters, who aren't mutants, e.g. Sub-Mariner, are you going to do something with this, or I have to do this? SF (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 21:47, 21 August 2009 (UTC) ::Namor IS a mutant, actually. It's LONG been said that he was one (the wings on his ankles are what makes him a mutant, something he CLEARLY didn't inherit from either of his parents), as are Namorita and Namora. It was even restated in the first issue of House of M, as Kitty Pryde was quizzing a classroom of kids. Again...it's the wings. And what would dividing the mutants by reality accomplish that isn't already accomplished by the reality categories they have and the earth designations in their names? ::--GrnMarvl14 16:17, 22 August 2009 (UTC) :::I think He is a hybrid of Atlantean and Human, and this is a resoult, maybe because of it he is a mutant, but nevermind. What about others and categorization? It'd be easier to look for mutants coming from alternate less-known realities. ::::Couldn't you just look for them by those reality numbers? Most alternate reality mutants are either counterparts of well-known Earth-616 characters or are from stories that focus on mutants. ::::--GrnMarvl14 22:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC) :::Chimera is not a proven mutant, Mysterio is definitely not a mutant, at this point, Madelyne Pryor is deceased, Purple Man is a mutate, not a mutant, Shinobi Shaw is dead (proven, since he was resurrected by the transmode virus).::::--Ferroboy 09:04, November 27, 2009 (UTC) ::::Fatale (Earth-616) is depowered. And Magik is a soulless demon with the body and mind of Illyana Rasputin, given unnatural existence by Belasco's black magic. Not sure if that counts. --PiranhaSister 03:59, July 4, 2010 (UTC) Race Template Should this article use the template? : 03:55, February 10, 2010 (UTC) :I personally thought about that in the past, but was unable to figure out how the sections of this page would really work in that template. It's kinda pretty the way it is, though I'd love to see everything properly templated. Are mutants an actual official race? :— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 23:25, February 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Well, in the real world, I think there's just 'the human race' - all this caucasian/negroid/mongoloid stuff is nonsense. But with the loose way we use 'race' in comics, I think they are. I'll take a crack at templating it, and if it don't work, we revert ::: 01:10, February 12, 2010 (UTC) :::Couldn't get the wiki table thing to work in the template, so it's at the end. Maybe you can work your magic. :::: 01:19, February 12, 2010 (UTC) :Should be all in there now. :) :— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 16:13, February 12, 2010 (UTC) Post M-Day Deaths There are several mutants listed on this page that have died since M-Day. They should be removed from the list, right? I don't want to mess up this list, but I think there is a list of mutants who retained their powers on the Decimation page. Thoughts? I don't mind doing the actual edits, I just don't want to ruin someone else's hard work. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Freyseagrove (talk • ). :We have had this discussion in various forms on the forums. My personal thought is that even though they are dead, they are still mutants. I don't think they should be removed from this page. Any user who follows a link to a character's page will see that they are dead... :Artful Dodger 02:04, August 16, 2010 (UTC) First appearance? Ok, I know Namor has been retconned into being a Mutant. However, he was not one when the story was written. Usual convention would be to list the first comic in which either mutants were mentioned or the first characters who have always been mutants first appeared (ie, X-Men Vol 1 #1). Ie, first appearances are not considered to have changed because of retcons. (First appearances are a matter of *publication history*, not in-universe history) If that wasn't sufficient, Namor may be a mutant but he isn't Homo sapiens superior. He's a hybrid of Homo sapiens and whatever marvel calls the atlantians (homo aquarius? I have no idea, but I know there's a term). Its not like non-human mutants are even unusual (there was a time when it was fashionable to make everything a mutant, but I know Warlock (Technarch) is explicitly called a mutant, and I think much of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard are also mutants - none of which are Homo sapiens superior). --Squirrelloid 13:48, June 11, 2010 (UTC) :Actually, with the Imperial Guard, MOST of them that we've seen are fairly normal for their race. The Strontians are all like Gladiator (all but one other are dead, though). Smasher's powers work on technology, which we've seen duplicated in three successors. Mentor's had a replacement that looks almost exactly like him. Same with Plutonia. And Neutron/Quasar. And Fang. There's no reason to think any are mutants unless it's been stated or shown that they're sufficiently different from the rest of their race (most of them...we HAVEN'T seen their races...just them. Though Black Light and White Noise ARE Shi'ar...though I'm unfamiliar with their origins, beyond their connection to Deathbird). :Though, honestly, this is why I'm not a big fan of this page being at Homo Superior. Might be more technical, but, well, look at the problems you've pointed out. :--GrnMarvl14 16:36, June 11, 2010 (UTC) ::Even if this page was at 'Mutant', it still doesn't change the fact that first appearances are a matter of *publication* history, so retcons don't matter. (Namor only became a mutant in the 90s). --Squirrelloid 00:45, June 12, 2010 (UTC) :::Well...I see it as equivalent to the modern/historical first appearances of characters. Thor, technically, first appeared in an issue of Venus. But the modern Thor that we're all used to didn't appear until Journey Into Mystery #83. Similar thing with Makkari, Ares, and others. Makkari's especially relevant as he wasn't retconned into being Hurricane until the 90s, making two Jack Kirby characters who were, previously, completely unrelated into the same character. And, while Namor may have never been called a mutant, he was very visibly a mutant...in scientific terms. Those wings ain't natural for either species. :::--GrnMarvl14 02:38, June 12, 2010 (UTC) Shatterstar? Isn't Shatterstar a Mojoverse creation like Longshot, and not a mutant? Or is my lack of X-Force knowledge showing? --GrnMarvl14 02:54, June 21, 2010 (UTC) :Shatterstar is the alleged son of Longshot and Dazzler which would make him genetically half Homo Superior and half Mojoverse creation-thingy (like Longshot). Everyone treats him as a mutant, but I don't know if he was ever actually confirmed as a mutant. :--Freyseagrove ::Actually this has been answered before. But he hasn't yet technically been confirmed as Longshot and Dazzler's son. --'[[User:Johnnybravo44|Johnnybravo'44]] (talk) 21:26, December 26, 2010 (UTC) Not Mutants Polaris, Magneto, Professor X, Quiksilver, and Sunfire (even though already technically without his power from Rogue) all lost their powers on M-Day. Polaris and Sunfire basically got theirs back from Apocalypse, Professor X from the M'Kraan Crystal, Quiksilver from the Terrigen Crystals, and Magneto from the High Evolutionary. They do not belong on this list of mutants that kept their powers after M-Day. Did I forget any? Also, does Crosta really count as a mutant? Asp, Cypher, and others don't seem to be either.. --Johnnybravo44 16:20, July 15, 2010 (UTC) : The list specifically states "retained (or regained)", so they can stay on. I guess there could be a separate category for the ones who regained, but an exclusive list of the ones who didn't lose their powers would be filed under the 198. Crosta is a difficult case; technically, he's a homo superior, just not a homo sapiens superior; he'd be a homo mermanus superior. Maybe we can set him apart as an example of mutants from other species? and frankly, I have no idea what to do with resurrected Douggie. Any other character who was resurrected I'd still consider the same species, but here? Is he part of a new species due to his techno-organic resurrection? And if so, wouldn't he count as a whole new being alltogether and necessitate an all new page, separate from that of Doug Ramsey?--edkaufman 17:48, July 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Don't see why Doug's any different. Look at his case like Magneto's or, better yet, Sunfire's. Basically resurrected. Not ALL of the mutants who were killed in Genosha by the Sentinel attack retained their mutant status after M-Day (check...crap...what was the name of that story with Beast and Dark Beast? Extinction...whatever). Doug's likely STILL a mutant, he's just living due to enhancements that could be considered cybernetic in nature. Same guy. Same memories (that's how he broke Selene's control). It's not like Douglock, where he didn't remember being Ramsey (because he was Warlock, apparently), and lacked the emotional connection of the memories he'd absorbed. Doug's a bit more robotic now because of the T-O, but he's basically the same guy. ::--GrnMarvl14 00:19, July 16, 2010 (UTC) ::: You're probably right. The whole Douglock thing still confuses the hell out of me. ;)--edkaufman 00:27, July 16, 2010 (UTC) ::::Thanks. And I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not but the story was Endangered Species. :) --Johnnybravo44 04:38, July 16, 2010 (UTC) :::::No sarcasm. I just completely blanked on the name. Knew it was something to do with the limited number of animals in a breeding population and X-Tinction Agenda kept popping into my head, but that's obviously not right. So I threw out the main characters and the best approximation of a title that came to mind. I knew someone had to remember it. :::::--GrnMarvl14 15:44, July 16, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Ok. Not to good of a story anyway, it was obvious Beast wouldn't find a cure. --Johnnybravo44 21:57, July 16, 2010 (UTC) :I actually like it. It was nice to see the two of them work together, and see how different they really are. And to see the lengths to which Beast was going to find a cure. When it was Legacy Virus he was working on, we'd see bits and pieces here or there of what he was doing, but here...we saw the entire journey, and we saw the he truly left no stone unturned. :--GrnMarvl14 00:21, July 17, 2010 (UTC) Gazer Wouldn't Gazer count as one also? Considering Polaris and Sunfire? --Johnnybravo44 (talk) 03:06, July 30, 2010 (UTC) Potential Omega Level Mutants I think we need create a new category: "Potential Omega Level Mutants" for the characters who are strong enough to be omega level mutants, but who are not yet confirmed, or not clearly confirmed. For example: reality warpers like Scarlet Witch, Mad Jim Jaspers, Jamie Braddock and Proteus are certainly more powerful than Elixir or Iceman, and deserve to be called Omega Level Mutants much more than they. Also Phoenix, Mister M and Storm have a few references to the fact that they are Omega Level Mutants, but it's not clearly yet (And by the way, they are also more powerful than Elixir or Iceman). Harasar :Problem with that is that it's EXTREMELY judgment-based. ANYONE could put ANY character in that (not to mention then trying to make "Potential" categories for Alpha, Beta, etc. mutants), and since you can't confirm it, you can't really remove the character without potentially offending the person who added it. It's best to stick to things that are undeniable. "Potential" just has too much ambiguity. :--GrnMarvl14 18:48, September 7, 2010 (UTC) :: Well, yes. I have not thought about this problem. Harasar 15:22, September 9, 2010 (UTC) Five Lights The "Five Lights" mutants should be added. --Mutant God 22:51, October 28, 2010 (UTC) Dividing up living mutants? This about the most recent changes made by User:Johnnybravo44 So we currently have the living mutants divided into three categories: Post M-Day mutants, inferno babies and all the rest. I can understand a pre and post M-Day division, but I kinda don't think the inferno babies should be separate. If the inferno babies are categorized separately then should we divide other by team affiliations (e.g. X-Men, Sisterhood of Mutants, New Mutants, etc.) or by when they were other identifiers (e.g. discovered after M-Day, repowered, alternate universe, etc.) Any thoughts or comments? -User:Freyseagrove Mutants? Is Namora actually a mutant? I thought she is just a hybrid of human and atlantean. And also, why Archer and Fixx in this list? They apparently still on Earth-616, but there the reference that they still mutants? Harasar 05:00, December 26, 2010 (UTC) :Apparently Namor and Namorita and Namora are mutants just because of the wings on their feet. And I believe it was in Endangered Species where it was stated that "all mutants who entered into Earth-616 from another timeline, but who where in Earth-616 when M-Day happened, kept their powers". Dont quote me on an issue, but I do recall seeing that somewhere. --'[[User:Johnnybravo44|Johnnybravo'44]] (talk) 05:10, December 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Yeah, Namora's a mutant because of the wings on her feet. Every other characteristic she and Namor possess are owed to one parent or another. But neither normal humans nor Atlanteans have wings on their feet. And Fixx and Archer have never been confirmed as still being powered, and while what Johnny said is true, the fact that they exist in Earth-616 because they're possessing two Earth-616 residents (unlike every other non-616 resident who have come here bodily)...it does make whether they're powered or not a questionable thing. ::--GrnMarvl14 16:13, December 26, 2010 (UTC) :: Thanks for help. Harasar 19:24, December 26, 2010 (UTC) Avengers' Academy So I've been reading the Avengers Academy Vol 1 series, and it seems that Veil, Hazmat and Mettle are mutants. This hasn't been confirmed, but (1) no other explanation has been given for their abilities, (2) their powers all activated as normal puberty mutations, and (3) Reptil, Finesse and Striker have all been confirmed as specifically NOT being mutants. So should we add them to this page or just keep waiting until they are confirmed at mutants or not? Any thoughts? --Freyseagrove 21:05, December 26, 2010 (UTC)